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Alex
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Re: the start of one persons discovery of just how stupid he is

empathia:
Forgetting about 'the old times' is NOT sentimental; indeed it's quite the opposite; a sensible practical decision to forget about a load of crap that used to cause us hassle. Why bother remembering a load of crap? No way man! -we need our full attention on memories we are making in the here and now because this time round, we are in the captain's chair, and very confortable it is too  :  )

Nonuse can be a rebellion against being pushed into habits of wronguse. In extreme cases of trauma, people have been known to shut down whole networks and suffered temporary blindness, memory loss or loss of speech. In less acute but more chronic trauma (such as most of us experience), networks partially 'go on strike' if they're pushed towards the wrong things. It seems to be our mind's way of protecting itself against damage, and it takes time for the unconscious mind to realize we're no longer being coerced into something inappropriate and it's now 'safe' to use those networks.

In short, it takes time for the mind to feel safe and stop hiding, and come out to play  :  ) I had nonuse in N2 & N5 for many years, and some of N5 is only just 'coming out to play' now.
But now we know what direction we're going in, we have all the time in the world...
Best,
AR


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empathia
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Re: the start of one persons discovery of just how stupid he is

I think that you do agree with me.. it IS important to be able to neutrally look at one's past and see it what it is; as one part of a mind's struggle to free and develop itself. Not to shy away from doing it because it feels unpleasant.. one can learn about acceptance even when looking at the past, no? Personally I've found I have a tendendency to rewind situations a bit too much (getting stuck) still but I think it will go away on it's own without me forcing anything. I've found that for me, allowing myself to consciously become sentimental has sometimes been the right choice for me. Because my usual way has been to be hard on myself and well that's even more sentimental. Acceptance goes a long way.

Regards networks striking, I've began Reichian exercises. They really hit the spot. I was struggling with "new" listlessness even having cut down meditation but then I realized that strong emotions are trying to surface. Now if I have a good Reichian session (an hour at this point) I feel pumped up, at least for some time..

My sense of self seems quite vague, said this before but now I can often tell that 'oh, this is not my energy/thought'. There's just so much of that shit that it boggles the mind. I think that when before I used drugs I got into this mind space of being able to KNOW what I THINK and FEEL. And now I can begin to do that in the company of others while sober. That is cool.

ABout all the time in the world.. I still have this sense of urgency but it is fading every day.. I do feel that sometimes already. It's kinda funny and sad to see some people deeply programmed into rushing. But then I'm not that free myself yet so .. better just concentrate on myself for now smile


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empathia
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Re: the start of one persons discovery of just how stupid he is

Ha ha, I suppose I can see what "saving the world" is about.. N3 syndrome. Acting good because of guilt, that sucks. And because I give myself reasons like "I wanna train myself to be strong". Not good, not good..

And I lost my GSR.. I'd like to buy a used thoughtstream if anyone has one..


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Alex
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Re: the start of one persons discovery of just how stupid he is

Following through on ideas from this...

It's nice starting to see reality isn't it? The truth is really pretty cool and optimistic  :  )

I know you know the world doesn't need 'saving'; it's just fine. It's been through ice ages and meteor strikes and island-sinking volcanoes and getting whacked by comets and species coming and going and it's still here just minding its own business and getting on with all the stuff that planets do best.
 
Society doesn't need 'saving' either; it's a bad habit driven by anxiety, that needs replacing with culture. The more little bits of culture we can create and maintain for ourselves and our allies, the more the problem is solving itself. We're perpetuating intelligence and its output (culture) through time, and that's about the best job description for a human I've ever heard. I think it IS worth saving intelligence. Without it the future of humanity on this world is doubtful at best, and we personally are screwed.

Acting good because of guilt isn't really acting good is it? It's just a waste of time and energy we could be using to grow. Feel like I've reminded myself of this so often that I've done the book, the movie and the tee shirt of that one  LOL  :  )  I KNOW it's just a clue that we're being driven by fear of what others think, but realizing that in the middle of it all....not easy.

We ARE strong. I think if we weren't strong, we'd be dead. There is 3.8 billion years' worth of evolutionary ancestry of strength, endurance and success behind us, otherwise we wouldn't even be here. Getting stronger just happens with experience; we learn how to cope with more difficult things, it's not anything I've found we have to work at. But for me being strong isn't about how many bullets we can dodge, its about being mentally 'together' enough to avoid situations involving bullets.

I have managed to start to look on fuckups as “bunk-ups to a higher level of experience”. But I'm only just starting to remember that when they're happening, rather than in retrospect.
Onward!  :  )
AR

PS You might find a s/h thoughtstream on amazon/ebay? You have to keep checking, they sometimes turn up.


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empathia
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Re: the start of one persons discovery of just how stupid he is

Wow. What a load of shit in my head, it's really hard to believe it. And I'm not as fucked as my parents were? Jesus.

My whole life has been a lie.

I totally am either borderline or MPD. I can't believe "normal" people would have this much completely opposite internal dialogue in their heads and dialogue that present themselves with names. Or I am narcissistic and made this all up with an overactive imagination, possible, but what's the difference? The fuck-up factor stays the same no?

And what's more, it seems that listening to the advice they give can sometimes go towards the right direction, ie. I gain understanding of what I'm feeling at any given moment. BUT then comes the next part/personality that makes me understand that this was just a show. Concepts like "sentiment/emotion" seem useless in this mess. What I know for certain is that the last hour I spent listening to the Angel Healing meditation made 95% of my negativity go away and I'm now feeling at my normal. You can call it an exaggarated placebo, I call it healing. Maybe you Alex think this just covered up the sentiment but what it feels the opposite.

I mean some time ago I thought I knew the difference and then another layer shows up and I don't know anymore. I don't think that can be normal. Does it matter? Well I think it does because if I'm different from you lot then I shouldn't compare myself to you too much because we might not be in the same ballpark, at this moment I mean. Past is another matter.


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Alex
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Re: the start of one persons discovery of just how stupid he is

empathia Wrote: Maybe you Alex think this just covered up the sentiment but what it feels the opposite.

No this doesn't sound like repression at all; it sounds like a genuine relaxation response. It doesn't matter whether we get our RRs from placebos or tech or drugs or meditation or whatever. Different methods work for different folks. All that matters is that we use them.

Neat article out a couple of days ago about meditation:
http://medicalxpress.com/news/2011-11-t … ation.html

On internal dialogue: It really helped me to give my mind something else to listen to, on the OUTSIDE. Your own real voice will do fine, read aloud to yourself or listen to audio books, podcasts, whatever. Keep the mind occupied with good input and it has less time to mess you about. Comedy is good. Cheerful music with good, discernable lyrics is fine. I use 'Rush'.

I think these sorts of experiences have taught me the flimsiness of what people think of as personality and how many folks simply behave like robots for their whole lives, I talk to them and I just hear whatever they saw on last night's TV repeating itself or their parents talking, not themselves. I think we're really lucky to have the autonomy to realise that the way we want to see ourselves and reality is up to us.

It has been suggested that the whole of early NH experience can be summed up in 2 directives we give to our minds: “Shut the fuck up” and “Calm the fuck down”. This was definitely true for me.  :  )

On thinking we know, then being disillusioned: This is the 100% normal state of affairs for all learning and science and researchers in general. Most people believe that learning is about finding answers, it isn't. It's about figuring out how to ask the relevant questions, and every time we think we know an answer or have solved something it turns out that (exactly as you say here), another layer shows up and we don't know anymore. But in that process we pick up bits along the way that we DO know, and that we didn't use to know, and that we can now use to our benefit and that's how we adapt and progress.

It happens on the level of whole cultures too -Ptolemy's ontology seems fine, then Copernicus comes along and causes trouble  :  )

On differences: we are all different from 'you lot' to the extent that there is no 'you lot'. If my colleague and I share this vial of morphine, I will get high and giggle all afternoon and he will experience nothing at all, as his genome is in that 10% that can't metabolize morphine. That's why its so useful to exchange methods and talk about results here, because some of us discover stuff that works for some others too.
Best,
AR


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Scalino
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Re: the start of one persons discovery of just how stupid he is

Alex wrote:

On thinking we know, then being disillusioned: This is the 100% normal state of affairs for all learning and science and researchers in general. Most people believe that learning is about finding answers, it isn't. It's about figuring out how to ask the relevant questions, and every time we think we know an answer or have solved something it turns out that (exactly as you say here), another layer shows up and we don't know anymore. But in that process we pick up bits along the way that we DO know, and that we didn't use to know, and that we can now use to our benefit and that's how we adapt and progress.
Well, hello my dear dudes smile

there was a time long ago, when I was much younger than today, I used to call that "the vertical path'...

Basically, it was made of stairs and floors. Floors were filled with (to-be-discovered/understood) things, and somewhere on each floor, there was to be found the first steps of a stairway to the next floor. Climbing the stairs when all things on the floor weren't fully understood was - at best - "bold" and at worst - "failed". As things on the floors could always be handled by "categories", I just had to understand one given thing and then seeking the category's pattern in other things, in order to go faster in "getting" a whole floor. Then, even when the floor was well understood, taking the stairway was always "risky", but as in real life, you learn not to fall while walking in stairs.

Then, one day, at the end of another stairway like the other ones, you arrive on the terrace... Beautiful sight...! Lots of things to enjoy in the call distance... Loads of barely discernable other things beyond... Few people around, but usually friendly ones. It seems they like the spot, and dwell there quite happily I guess.

However, for people like my self... at some given time, "not enough" arises, inevitably. That means, you have to find how to "continue to climb". Although, there's no stairway to be seen or found anymore. I'd say the answer is unfortunately utterly personal, and usually can be found by getting back down to the different floors you (already) roamed, in order to resolve your self's riddle, and then... it's easy at last to know what to do. Reality though won't cease to amaze you for the rest of the way...

Have fun,

Scalino


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Re: the start of one persons discovery of just how stupid he is

Nice summary of the concept of बोधिसत्त्व, 'my dear' Scalino, wtg! =)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodhisattva

00010111
  MM800

PS.: I know this is not the right place to suggest this, but since you are around.. =) The addition of the login form here on the forums was a great idea and demonstration of technical expertise, wtg, however I find myself scrolling over and over, through lengthy posts, to login when I'm going to reply, so perhaps also adding it to the bottom of the page would make it even more awesome? =)

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Scalino
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Re: the start of one persons discovery of just how stupid he is

Hi dude,

ahh.. you know how to talk to grown men, my friend... ;) [and I guess to grown women too...]

a bit puzzled cause I cannot believe someone like you doesn't know about the 'home' and 'end' keys, however I'll see what I can do for you... smile

keep you up,

Scalino

PS: and thanks for the link


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Scalino
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Re: the start of one persons discovery of just how stupid he is

hmm... m'okay, I see your problem more clearly now...

so we need some kind of "ergonomy for alternative desks" smile

Scalino


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empathia
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Re: the start of one persons discovery of just how stupid he is

To Alex and Scal (scroll down)

I liked the article, meaning it was really a good one, one I might refer to someone that it might be appropriate to introduce to meditation.

At least at the moment when I don't deal with much crap at all from others (therefore avoiding being trainwrecked-you know what I mean). Some fairly small things can bring up a lot of old crap on the surface so can't socialize too much but I don't mind. I'm happy being at this point. My internal dialogue is, if I get time to deal with the crap, just fine now. I will remember to keep my MP3 player with me so in case something unexpected happens and I start thinking really gloomy thoughts, I can use something to snap me back into reality.

Reality, as taught in our school and by you Alex (there are a lot of similarities), has become very clear to me now. I retain the perspective subjectively speaking most of the time. And when I notice it, I don't kick myself and hardly ever get annoyed even. It's amazing to me that I've reached this point. I stopped stressing about getting better all the time. The nagging feeling of not doing enough is at least on the surface level gone.

I tried listening to Rush but I had trouble understanding the lyrics. I did understood some of them but it was clearly not input for me right now. But can't wait to listen to it when I can because I understand it is one of the best 'path' music no?

'shut the fuck up'/'calm the fuck down'. Yes, good lines. Although I do have some trouble with the swear words, N2 nonuse probably.

On the scientific process: Someone who had taken quite a few mushrooms I think sang somewhat like 'the searching never ends, and I come to understand the searching is the thing, not the destination'.

On the 'you lot': I felt you might not have realized the motive that was behind that saying; I did felt that 'I'm different' but it seemed at that point that all of you understand some of the key concepts that I still didn't. Although I'm making considerable headway now and I'm sure only a small time and I'll be faking it till I make it like I had done it my whole life.. I remember reading about hyperreality and although I can't comprehend what it's like and I can already begin to intuitively connect to the idea and find it well, thrilling. Another image comes to mind, the kung-fu sparring session in the Matrix. Oh and 'It's not the spoon that bends it is your mind', never thought I'd understand that but yeah, in the pocket already.

Scal:

There is a feeling of going upwards more than forward. Are you living in N7 now then? Someone should write about the relationship of enlightenment and N7. In a light manner of course.

----------------------------------

In a way, while I don't think our school works really according to the learning theory of Alex, it is traditional in that sense, we are taught that everything can always be easy. It is of course true that if one believes something to be hard, it can't be easy. But a child can't get enlightened without growing up and making something towards that end so things can't always be easy for everyone. I guess it just is supposed to teach that labeling oneself or things can be harmful if one is not openminded enough to notice when the situation changes.

A lot more self-discipline that I used to have even though I don't stress as much. As Alex said, 'more haste, less speed'. But it comes naturally. That's the beauty in my eyes when you use good techniques. Although yes I have still procastinated and I haven't exercised and my house is a mess. But that is going to change real soon, even before the new year ;) But my mind is galloping towards calmness and clearness and because I've missed that the most, I can let that go into stillness.

One thing that amazes me is that nowadays when I move around, I usually make more or less this little grr-noise. I was at the beginning very afraid how people will react but no-one has said anything. No freaking one! Shit! And I was so worried and afraid. Maybe it does bother them in their sleep or they complain it on the internet (I mean, people complain so much on the net that it would be odd they don't complain about something like that). Come to think of it, I haven't come across many clearly N2 people. So perhaps they would charge at me. I don't know.

The effect on me has been that I have become to enjoy being among people a lot more. Or should I say, they don't scare me so much so I can feel what I'm seeing and enjoy what 'I create my own world' means even while being outside the house.

It will be interesting to know what type of experiences in my life led to the feeling of everyone always judging me.

New assessment: N5 31,5%, N4 5%. Right ;)


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Alex
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Re: the start of one persons discovery of just how stupid he is

empathia Wrote:
I will remember to keep my MP3 player with me so in case something unexpected happens


Damned fine resolution dude! Me too.

Re: Rush lyrics, That's a band with a long long history containing some very different stuff. I don't understand most of their early stuff, but the album 'signals' always seemed to me the one most relevant to NH, particularly the track, “The weapon” which has the immortal line, “We've got nothing to fear but fear itself”, and does a good job of explaining how anxiety controls people (“They talk about love but when push comes to shove, they live for things they're afraid of”).



Empathia wrote: 'shut the fuck up'/'calm the fuck down'. Yes, good lines. Although I do have some trouble with the swear words, N2 nonuse probably.

Swearing is a tool, and can be a life-saving one, so it's worth mastering. Swearing with good cause (ie pain or distress) is congruent. It works with the body to improve your situation. Helpful in humor and social fun, it also reduces anxiety hormones if you do it immediately after accident or injury, and it can also control pain quite considerably. Check this out:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dBkptLQOwA
(experiment starts about 3 minutes in)


Empathia wrote: I come to understand the searching is the thing, not the destination'.

Totally; the aim of the game, with both life and intelligence, is to stay in the game. Or, “The point of the journey is not to arrive”*

Re: crystals etc:  There is no spoon. So we can choose whatever type of cutlery looks most beautiful to us individually and that we have the most personal associations with, as long as we remember it is the mind that's doing the rule-bending and that's where the power lives. It's very easy to confuse understanding theories of tool use with understanding the user (know thyself).
If you remember that the end goal is to train yourself to achieve the same changes WITHOUT needing the spoon (or drug, or tech), you'll keep a healthy perspective on tools.

Beauty in the dark:
You will need: some red lead powder, some chromium yellow powder paint, a candle, some tongs or tweezers, and a rod of clear quartz.
Light the candle and put out the lights. Wait till your eyes adjust.
Mix the powders together. You will get a lovely orange shade.
Hold the crystal in the tweezers and heat it up in the candle for about 10 seconds.
Hold the heated crystal over the powder and watch what happens.

All the red powder will move to one end of the crystal, and all the yellow to the other. In the dark you can actually see the particles of powder separate, as though the crystal were a pigment magnet.
This is nature bringing order out of chaos. It is science, it is beautiful, it is a piezoelectric property, and it looks quite amazing. It will work for anybody, anywhere, at any time. That's how we know it's reality; even if people don't believe in it, it won't go away  :  )

A crystal or a GSR machine; both are spoons  :  ) It is not the GSR machine that heals by reducing my blood pressure; it is ME. Once we grab that bit, the behavior of spoons is up to us as long as we remember there is no spoon.
I'm not sure if that made any sense at all, I'm just hoping  :  )


Empathia wrote: But a child can't get enlightened without growing up and making something towards that end

A healthy child starts off enlightened. The light only goes out when crap gets in the way.
Best,
AR

*Rush lyrics  :  )


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empathia
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Re: the start of one persons discovery of just how stupid he is

Alex, good to have a word with you about this, but first I'll post about my achieving relaxation response for the first time without meditation! I feel a little happiness and excitement about it. Will get back to you soon.


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empathia
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Re: the start of one persons discovery of just how stupid he is

Gotta love this speed of progress. I have now entered space (I now intuit this is N3 you talked about..) and must say it's quite an experience. Well I already unloaded on another forum a little but suddenly lyrics make sense and when I move to the music, I can really feel it.

It really was about stopping the bending of that spoon, wasn't it.. I think it's incredible how fast all the stuff (tools) I used accomplished the transformation. It's incredible how much self-hate I have had inside. And I guess I still do but once I get the level of the crap around me lowered to the level my head stays above it, I can stop identifying with it and that's where it all begins... life I mean.

It's interesting how it went.. Thought I was supposed to go into psychosis but no wasn't like that at all. No need to use big guns. The jungle knife proved to be plenty. There was a lot of truth in how I perceived things to be in a way but in the end, it wasn't really the life-death struggle I expected. More like a summer camp ghost-story telling ring where youngsters get thrills by telling each other exciting stories. This time the story was my way of thinking and learning to accept that even though it was, from one point of view, silly to have this or that disfunctional thinking pattern, the person having them was still Me (capital for respect) and I all I needed to do was a) to see that those patterns are not me and b) learn to acknowledge and then let go of any sentiment connected to them. After that you get to play and then it's all downhill from there. Or so it feels. No guarantees ;) (strange thing is, I don't feel the need for it. I know I can hack everything given enough time.)

The entity problem was experienced once more, this time sober, when for the first time in an emotional group situation where I was expected to behave in a certain way, said NO and denied doing what was expected of me. I suddenly had an experience like all these people I knew to be very friendly would actually be demons. Thankfully I was already in a stable enough state to knew it wasn't true. There must have been a pretty great pressure in my past to just be compliant..

Interestingly though, I want to add, that I read that one of the experiences related to 'infinite' is a vast space. Maybe I just experienced this? but these traumas were blocking me from experiencing this space.. and haha, now I know that this space is exactly the same space you Alex referred to.. Nice one..

I would be very interested in hearing if there are any techniques for this ghosting phenomenon because that is exactly what I experience a lot. Maybe it could be included in the tutorials? (it is not a rare problem is it?)

Maybe you understood the 'cleaning oneself' to be sentimental? One way to understand is to think of the bad programming as crap on us, and by programming ourselves we become clean and can feel our self to be pure. Or is it just me who has experiences of their essence being pure?

Big thanks Alex smile Wonderful to get that off my back and that's partly due to you.


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Mnemo
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Re: the start of one persons discovery of just how stupid he is

Hey all, Just looking for a good place to post a  "hello".  This seems like as good a place as any.  Yea, I'm alive! Been over coming challenges, basking in a healthy love life, dancing, sing and otherwise carrying on nicely.

Glad to see this has continued to be a growing vibrant community.  Rock on forever dudes")


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