Out of curiosity, what exactly does 'tramadol is only 10% the strength of morphine' mean? Would taking 10 times the dose make it as strong as morphine?

Fractal wrote:

Out of curiosity, what exactly does 'tramadol is only 10% the strength of morphine' mean? Would taking 10 times the dose make it as strong as morphine?

Hi dude, well, that could mean that tramadol is titled at 10% of "pure morphine" + water and some other compounds.

Let me explain how opiates in general are classified:

It all starts with opium. Opium is made of the sap of poppies plants' taken from the famous kind of bulb of the flower, when they are blossoming. When it drips out of the bulb, it is a whitish semi-liquid material (quite like natural rubber); once harvested it is somehow "dried" and becomes technically what we call 'opium', a very dark and gluey material, which comes up in more or less big "balls".

Opium = First level of refinement of this poppies' sap = "Number One"  (barely used, people use 'opium' instead). This compound contains "pure heroin" (technically, it should be called by its latin name at that point, but consider "pure heroin" means 100% heroin), but it also contains a heck of a lot of other vegetal substances, chemical molecules which doesn't have anything to do with opiates, etc... So, all in all, opium is considered as being a compound titled at roughly 10 to 15% of "pure heroin", depending on the "knowledge-as-ability" of the peasant who grew it.

Now, as we're human beings with twisted human minds, one of us once had a brilliant idea. They said: well, what if we find a way to remove a maximum of other substances than "pure heroin" from this 'opium' ball, and see what it does when you absorb it...
"Wow...!" launched another one, "what a beautiful idea dude...! But... how we're gonna do that?"

"Well, let me think.... okay, let's put it in water and let's boil it...! Once the water will have mostly gone away, it probably will give us some more concentrated solution." [well, actually, from now on, I'm not sure of the precise refining operations because... well, because it's meant to be like that, these are difficult information to find, see what I mean...?]. Now, you get the idea, you find a way to refine it once again. And you obtain what follows :

Morphine = Second Level of refinement of poppies' sap = "Number Two" (barely used, people use 'morphine' instead). Morphine contains about 30/40% of 'pure heroin'. That means if you take 1gram of pure morphine, you take 30/40% of pure heroin (so 300mg/400mg) and the rest of it is not made of opiates.

--> Here, you can calculate the titling of your Tramadol in terms of pure heroin: 10% of 30/40%, so about 3/4% of pure heroin. (if "10% the strength" actually means what I said)

Then, you can go further than that. Well, I forgot to say, medical morphine comes usually as a liquid (but originally it exists as powder, which is the result of the second level of refinement). So, you can continue to refine that powder, with yet more complicated chemical refining (and this is where you begin to need some illegal laboratory in the jungle, or anywhere else actually...). The next level is called:

Brown Sugar = Third Level of refinement of poppies' sap = "Number Three" (barely used, people use 'brown sugar' instead). A lightly brown powder, this one contains (when it is pure and not having been cut by dealing bastards...) about 50 to 60% of pure heroin (*). And... ladies and gentlemen and highly regarded dudes, tatatan..... finally, and ultimately (well... I'll get back on that) the last refining process.... and you get:

Heroin = Fourth Level of refinement of poppies' sap = "Number Four" (widely used throughout Thailand... )
Depending on the talent of these last-operating chemists, you get something which contains 89 to 94% of pure heroin. And you can do what you want, you can't get higher than that, unless... unless you know the secret of the French Connection, 'cause they are the only heroin dealers in history who performed to reach 97/98%. They were fucking French, dudes....!!!! True geniuses....

(*) : Okay, now let me take an example. Let's imagine that between the place of production (let's say... in some high plates in Afghanistan. Afghanistan...? Hmmm... funny, isn't it where some western countries are at war with some bearded dudes...? M'yeah, well... most probably a pure coincidence... Pure...? okay, disgressing, sorry...)
So, let's imagine that between that place and the street where you're gonna find some ounce or gram of "brown sugar", the initially pure product (that contained 50 to 60% of pure heroin) has been cut 10 times, in a 50/50 proportion with some inactive powder (believe me, it happens more often than you might think). Well, basically you got something which only contains 5 to 6% of pure heroin, so about the same power as your Tramadol example. If it is cut eleven times like this, Tramadol is technically more powerful. Now, the placebo effect might work better with some inhaled powder than with a simple pill, putting aside issues of biological barriers for ingested substances being more numerous than those in your nose.

Does that answer your question...?

Oh, and yeah by the way, if one tramadol pill is 10% the strength of a morphine pill, taking 10 tramadol pills should be comparable to one morphine pill (though you also take 10 times more pill-filling by-products).

Alex wrote:

A lot of cannabis is high CBD these days, so you should test the THC:CBD ratio of your sample beforehand or you might just sleep for days or eat the entire contents of your fridge
:  )

For one, JWH and CP-compounds have no CBD. This is a first for me to hear that cannabis today would have a lot of CBD. Surely though not close to 50:50 ratio which is used for pain management?

alex wrote:
Cannabis has always had CBD; it's just that with GM you can get a heck of a lot more in some kinds.

Because CBD and THC are in an either/or relationship at the genetic level, breeding for high THC means breeding out CBD.

Maybe genetic manipulation can somehow change this?

And I read that while in extracts the amount is 40:60 CBD/THC, in circulating bud this is often lower.

Scalino wrote:

Fractal wrote:

Out of curiosity, what exactly does 'tramadol is only 10% the strength of morphine' mean? Would taking 10 times the dose make it as strong as morphine?

Hi dude, well, that could mean that tramadol is titled at 10% of "pure morphine" + water and some other compounds.

Let me explain how opiates in general are classified:

It all starts with opium. Opium is made of the sap of poppies plants' taken from the famous kind of bulb of the flower, when they are blossoming. When it drips out of the bulb, it is a whitish semi-liquid material (quite like natural rubber); once harvested it is somehow "dried" and becomes technically what we call 'opium', a very dark and gluey material, which comes up in more or less big "balls".

Opium = First level of refinement of this poppies' sap = "Number One"  (barely used, people use 'opium' instead). This compound contains "pure heroin" (technically, it should be called by its latin name at that point, but consider "pure heroin" means 100% heroin), but it also contains a heck of a lot of other vegetal substances, chemical molecules which doesn't have anything to do with opiates, etc... So, all in all, opium is considered as being a compound titled at roughly 10 to 15% of "pure heroin", depending on the "knowledge-as-ability" of the peasant who grew it.

Now, as we're human beings with twisted human minds, one of us once had a brilliant idea. They said: well, what if we find a way to remove a maximum of other substances than "pure heroin" from this 'opium' ball, and see what it does when you absorb it...
"Wow...!" launched another one, "what a beautiful idea dude...! But... how we're gonna do that?"

"Well, let me think.... okay, let's put it in water and let's boil it...! Once the water will have mostly gone away, it probably will give us some more concentrated solution." [well, actually, from now on, I'm not sure of the precise refining operations because... well, because it's meant to be like that, these are difficult information to find, see what I mean...?]. Now, you get the idea, you find a way to refine it once again. And you obtain what follows :

Morphine = Second Level of refinement of poppies' sap = "Number Two" (barely used, people use 'morphine' instead). Morphine contains about 30/40% of 'pure heroin'. That means if you take 1gram of pure morphine, you take 30/40% of pure heroin (so 300mg/400mg) and the rest of it is not made of opiates.

--> Here, you can calculate the titling of your Tramadol in terms of pure heroin: 10% of 30/40%, so about 3/4% of pure heroin. (if "10% the strength" actually means what I said)

Then, you can go further than that. Well, I forgot to say, medical morphine comes usually as a liquid (but originally it exists as powder, which is the result of the second level of refinement). So, you can continue to refine that powder, with yet more complicated chemical refining (and this is where you begin to need some illegal laboratory in the jungle, or anywhere else actually...). The next level is called:

Brown Sugar = Third Level of refinement of poppies' sap = "Number Three" (barely used, people use 'brown sugar' instead). A lightly brown powder, this one contains (when it is pure and not having been cut by dealing bastards...) about 50 to 60% of pure heroin (*). And... ladies and gentlemen and highly regarded dudes, tatatan..... finally, and ultimately (well... I'll get back on that) the last refining process.... and you get:

Heroin = Fourth Level of refinement of poppies' sap = "Number Four" (widely used throughout Thailand... )
Depending on the talent of these last-operating chemists, you get something which contains 89 to 94% of pure heroin. And you can do what you want, you can't get higher than that, unless... unless you know the secret of the French Connection, 'cause they are the only heroin dealers in history who performed to reach 97/98%. They were fucking French, dudes....!!!! True geniuses....

(*) : Okay, now let me take an example. Let's imagine that between the place of production (let's say... in some high plates in Afghanistan. Afghanistan...? Hmmm... funny, isn't it where some western countries are at war with some bearded dudes...? M'yeah, well... most probably a pure coincidence... Pure...? okay, disgressing, sorry...)
So, let's imagine that between that place and the street where you're gonna find some ounce or gram of "brown sugar", the initially pure product (that contained 50 to 60% of pure heroin) has been cut 10 times, in a 50/50 proportion with some inactive powder (believe me, it happens more often than you might think). Well, basically you got something which only contains 5 to 6% of pure heroin, so about the same power as your Tramadol example. If it is cut eleven times like this, Tramadol is technically more powerful. Now, the placebo effect might work better with some inhaled powder than with a simple pill, putting aside issues of biological barriers for ingested substances being more numerous than those in your nose.

Does that answer your question...?

Oh, and yeah by the way, if one tramadol pill is 10% the strength of a morphine pill, taking 10 tramadol pills should be comparable to one morphine pill (though you also take 10 times more pill-filling by-products).

Hey dude,

Wow, that was a way more detailed reply then I had expected. However something struck me as odd... possibly that I once took something which was supposed to be 10 times the strength of morphine, which should make it 600% heroin...
So I looked it up, and wikipedia disagrees with you:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tramadol
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diacetylmorphine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morphine
According to this, they are three different molecules, not different concentrations of the same molecule. Maybe heroin is produced from morphine, but its not just a refinement process.