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Alex
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Re: Formal Reasoning Site

(fifth bit)
MM800 wrote: Does it mean I would be more creative if I was relaxing, I don't see how a soccer player, for example, isn't (or can't be) creative, even in the height of stress at the last few minutes of a difficult game.
Conversely, everything is helped by being relaxed, most certainly logic and planning, that's one of! the reasons why we "preach" anxiety reduction, right? to not block blood flow from those anterior cerebral cortices, right? Where am I confusing things? 00010111 MM800


On relaxation: This is down to interpretation of 'relaxed'. The BEST players are stretching/relaxing in real time, like the skilled martial arts master who can be relaxed and 'in the flow' during moments of extreme violence. Body and mind contain no tension, motion is largely automatic and response time is very fast.

This is 'unifying' the stress/relax response. Most people think of 'relaxed' as being physically all floppy and half asleep, but mental relaxation is what puts athletes, gamers, (and originally prehistoric hunters,) 'in the zone'.

Unifying stretch/relaxation enables ultimate performance. I planned to talk about this in the later intermediate tutorials. Roughly it means “deliberately getting into alpha rhythm”.

The important bit to get the hang of is that we can be relaxed throughout extreme physical activity. Resolving each incoming fragment of stress confidently in real time leads to this space and the thrill of being 'in the flow' yet totally in control.

Best,
AR


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Fractal
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Re: Formal Reasoning Site

Hey dudes,

I know I'm late to the discussion, but to go back to the original topic of LW, yes it is very N5, but there is certainly some useful stuff there. I wasn't previously aware of the research into cognitive biases for instance (e.g. various forms of overconfidence: if someone says they are 99% confidant about something, on average they are wrong about 50% of the time - this is really useful to know when forming opinions!) On the other hand cognitive 'biases' evolved for a reason...
The oddest thing about LW is the use of 'Bayesian' as synonymous with 'awesome' - if they want to emphasise anything, stick Bayesian of the front - e.g. 'a Bayesian A.I. could do x' where 'an A.I. could do x' is also true.
Yes, Bayesian probability is useful, but so are a lot of other things - if knowing Bayes' theorem makes me a Bayesian, does knowing martial arts makes me a Martian?


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It's funny how Bayesians came from nearly overt persecution[1] to nearly idol worshiping. Don't you also find it amusing how humans are always ready to jump into the latest gods that "work"? MWAHAHA! Shame though he wasn't daring enough to get himself crucified =) but at least he got to write his own manuscript. ;-) (Instead of waiting it to fall on his lap from the heavens, I might add)

  Well, that figure is just another example[2] of how humans are bayesed on avoiding their own bayeses =D (sorry couldn't resist the word play). But of course, you could have figured that by noticing that saying a figure is "50% on average" is mostly equivalent as saying it is random, but we KNOW some are FAR less random than others, aren't they? ;-) Although yes, I'm bayesed to say: I'm yet to find NOT an unBayesian human (it DOES make it sound more awesome!)


00010111
  MM800

[1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTltncUkckQ
[2]http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2011-12/m-ftc121611.php

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Re: Formal Reasoning Site

Hey, Fractal. Here's a neat paper on self-assessment and competence that partially explains, in specific contexts, why most people's metacognitive skills are dismal and the practical importance of humility.

http://people.psych.cornell.edu/~dunnin … naware.pdf


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Hey, alex. I notice that in moments of extreme stress I (so probably others) am able to accomplish tasks that would otherwise be lost in a maze of emotional blocks, provided they need comparatively shorter bursts of creativity. There's a passage in Sun Tzu where he advises the general, with the paradoxical language of Tao, to put his soldiers in fatal situations to attain victory. I believe he means the soldiers will derive 'braveness' and determination from sheer despair. Talk about motivation. Would you characterize this phenomenon as flow? The answer is relevant to MM800's point about the soccer player. Having experienced what I perceive as flow in relaxation and strain (leading to -some- relaxation during execution and bliss after completion), I'd say yeah.


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Alex
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Re: Formal Reasoning Site

Hi dude

...Hmm, there's another possibility; maybe he thought there was nothing like real life experience to weed out the wimps from the brave? Training can only go so far; nothing prepares one for combat quite like combat.

I'm not sure of the Taoist meaning for 'flow', but it sounds like you are talking about “in the zone”? It certainly does happen to some people in a crisis. Unfortunately it doesn't happen to most, and in Sun Tzu's situation, I guess those who couldn't get there would be the ones who got killed. Contextual selection would leave him with an army of special forces that could withstand extreme situations.

Necessity is the motherfucker of invention and many people rediscover 'the zone' when in a tight squeeze. The most famous stories are about parents lifting cars off their kids.

There's a common belief that we have to have unpleasant experiences in order to grow. This isn't true; what's important is that we continue to have new challenging experiences, and nice ones actually benefit growth more than nasty ones!

Often emotional blocks can be reduced by improved attention and concentration in the here and now, as long as anxiety remains low enough for it to happen. Paying proper attention to what's going on around us in the here and now takes our minds off ourselves. Could it be that you've improved your attention skills and reduced anxiety enough to start interacting more in various contexts?  Just a thought...
Best,
AR


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Yes, for me, in those instances, it was always pleasure in the activity resulting in sublimation. Concentration in the here and now excludes planning? In sports, you can often predict your opponent's reactions and adjust your behavior without losing focus.


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Re: Formal Reasoning Site

A:
"..Hmm, there's another possibility; maybe he thought[...]"


There is yet another possibility; maybe he meant for the ENEMY GENERAL to expose their soldiers to danger, since it is clear that The Art of War was coded, in case it fell in enemy hands. It's funny how many people don't believe this kind of PsyOp happens, even today... btw Alex, do you plan on checking the Olympic Games there? If so, remember the fundamental financial market rule which we here are all too familiar with (though by any other alias); if majority is amassing somewhere, it's probably NOT a good idea. ;-)


A:
"There's a common belief that we have to have unpleasant experiences in order to grow. This isn't true; what's important is that we continue to have new challenging experiences, and nice ones actually benefit growth more than nasty ones!"


Some fresh science to back you up: ;-)
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/ … 121611.php (published this weekend)


00010111
MM800

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We could go further. Maybe he told double spies to spread the rumor that it's coded after it fell into enemy hands (lol), and so forth.  I'm no expert in financial markets, but afaik the majority does ok. As for the rest, some fail, some win.


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Alex
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Meta Process Wrote:
Concentration in the here and now excludes planning?
It appears from MRI etc that being 'in the zone' merges imagination (planning) and memory; that's certainly also my personal experience of it; being aware of the here and now in relation to past and future, as a sort of timeless excerpt, damn that sounds dead cosmic LOL  :  )
I'm not sure though if 'in the zone' here holds the same meaning as 'concentration'. There's definitely more to the zone space than just concentration. Concentration lights up N3; the zone employs large lumps of N4 as well. The zone looks like an obsessive sort of focus that jams distraction, enables physical automation and gives the subjective psychological effect of slowing down time.

The difference is portrayed in The Matrix; Neo is concentrating very hard during his fights with Smith, but only after waking up from being 'shot' is he 'in the zone'. No longer any fear or anger; notice that -but ridiculously fast reflexes etc. I thought that feeling of power and being one with everything was portrayed very well.


MM800 Wrote:
Alex, do you plan on checking the Olympic Games there?

I don't pay any attention to TE stuff, so am proud not to know where or when the next olympics is (and I don't want to know)  :  )

Re:
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/ … 121611.php

There's plenty of awareness that bad experiences can make us stronger, but also that they have dire side effects. What we need more of is this sort of thing:
http://www.dana.org/media/detail.aspx?id=7142

-if anyone has time to look for such papers on the effects of  'environment enrichment'; proving the point that ANY experience makes us stronger, and good experience makes us stronger without so many bad side effects. Most folks are badly deprived of good exciting input, especially if imagination is poor.
Best,
AR


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Alex
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Re: Formal Reasoning Site

Fractal wrote:
if knowing Bayes' theorem makes me a Bayesian, does knowing martial arts makes me a Martian?


...maybe only if you haven't learned to differentiate LOL  :  )


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A:
"I don't pay any attention to TE stuff, so am proud not to know where or when the next olympics is[...]"

See Meta... you are however welcome to do as "ok" as you like ;-)

  A:
" (and I don't want to know)  :  ) "

I wont spoil it for you ^_^ nevertheless, it might be useful to check whether trajectories might collide in case there is the slight possibility of occupying the same space and time of a TE fleet. Just thought a heads up were in order since you seem not so far from it =) There is always a train of bollocks leaving the station... (oh.. another financial analogy.. haha dont know what's with me lately ^^)

  A:

"...maybe only if you haven't learned to differentiate LOL  :  )" *

Couldn't agree more integrally.

00010111
  MM800

*Funny, your explanation showed up in the email but not here, probably related to the formatting glitch I tried to warn you guys earlier? (or you edited out?)

Edit: "There's plenty of awareness[...]"

NOT among the general public, as the link I pasted also suggests... They go with the saying of "WHATEVER dont kill you makes you stronger" and stop right there with no qualification.

oh yes, couldn't agree more integrally on that either =) even lab rats with what scientists DARE to call "enrichment" do much better, most still wonder why wild rats are "less similar" to even those!

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Alex
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Re: Formal Reasoning Site

MM800 Wrote:
*Funny, your explanation showed up in the email but not here, probably related to the formatting glitch I tried to warn you guys earlier?

Ah, that was my fault, changing the future... I put in the explanation and then thought it sounded patronising so I edited it. But I can't yet edit at light speed...
(“I think you'll find it's human error, Dave”...)  :  )

Re: awareness: sorry; I meant awareness among group members. Most of the general public isn't even aware of its own ass.

Btw happy new year in advance, dudes!  :  )
AR


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And now the question is, have you replied about your edit AFTER seeing my own edit conjecturing of your edit OR in those 15 minutes between my post and yours, the (however brief*) interval I took to perceive the possibility and edit was longer than the interval you took to perceive a reply and load the page for reading? Hmmmmmmmmm.... we may never know... =) hahaha

--" Most of the general public isn't even aware of its own ass. "

HUAHAHA.. I dont know why I bother, I sometimes forget we are talking of humans...


--"Btw happy new year in advance, dudes!  :  ) "

Except for any Chinese! (call me racist, but they themselves would agree with me)

00010111
  MM800

*Not considering relativistic effects, geopositional differences and clocks imprecisions... of course.

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Re: Formal Reasoning Site

alex,

I can't put this in accurate words, but I find the sweet spot for 'the zone' in a mind space near that of learning, slightly more alert. That may be because, as you said, both use concentration.

MM800

I'd welcome everyone to win at the bigger, more exciting game of life. That was a descriptive, rather than a normative, statement about that particular game, from its own standpoint (if I'm correct at all).

Happy new year!


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