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devonwhite
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Imaging the networks

Hi Dudes,

I'm looking for imagery representative of each of the networks. Is there one specific image for each network somewhere? I've look through for a long while but don't feel like I've really found it. This page seemed hopeful but the png is missing: http://www.neurohackers.com/index.php/e … l1?start=1

And I've seen this: http://www.neurohackers.com/index.php/e … n-pictures
but I'm looking for something more straight forward if it exists.

Can anyone please point me to some good overview imagery.

Thanks!

D



Edited By:  devonwhite
Sep-16-13 03:20:48

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Sakiro
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Re: Imaging the networks

Hi dude, the image of the first link i think is this one, don't know if there is another one.

http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/6082/ceh6.png

Cheers


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devonwhite
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Re: Imaging the networks

Awesome. Thanks Sakiro!


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devonwhite
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Re: Imaging the networks

Sakiro, et al. ~ another question.

Is there a diagram or page outlining the platform, input and energy sources for each matrix? As well as the name of each matrix?

Let me expand on the questions...

In description, each matrix provides three things:

A Platform (Safe space in which to interact, explore, and learn)
A source of Power (energy enough to move about and explore and fuel interaction)
And Input (possibilities for exploration and learning - stuff to interact with)

So the first part I'm having trouble understanding is:

1. Why is the safe space in which to interact, explore and learn called the platform? It seems like what's being developed, at least from a computer analogy perspective, is the platform. The actual hardware, firmware and architecture. Am i wrong on that?

2. Does each Matrix have a specific nomenclature?

3. In the first matrix, the matrix is described as being the Fertilized Womb. However, the Platform is also the fertilized womb, is it not? And in this case, the input is the fertilized womb as well. Or at least components of the fertilized womb, i.e. nutrients and the umbilicus. This is where I'm getting confused.

4. In one of the tables, there is a category for where primary environmental input is coming from. e.g.

N1: Womb
N2: Primary caregiver
N3: Environment
N4: Society/Material world
N5: Self
N6: Larger system

Are those the same as the Matrix? The Platform? The Input?


Here's how the three things provided by each matrix break out:


Matrix Name for N1: ?

Platform: Fertilized Womb
Input: Encoding DNA
Energy: Umbilicus and nutrients from mother

Matrix Name for N2: ?

Platform: A safe primary caregiver and 50-foot range from the caregiver to explore and 'COMP VC'
Input: Primary Caregiver, Examples of age-appropriate activities, e.g. safe, warm touching, physical games, and eventually dancing, playing, languages, tool use,
Energy: Nutrition (Breast milk and healthy food, water) as well as internally generated energy to explore and COMP VC


Matrix Name for N3: ?

Platform: A Safe Environment
Input: Imagination games, internally generated emotions (and the ability to express them without over-correction)
Energy: Nutrition? Self generated Energy?


Matrix Name for N4: ?

Platform: Society, Material World
Input: Technology, tools, puzzles, good examples of appropriate behavior, collaborative and creative endeavors from others
Energy: Nutrition? Self generated Energy?


Matrix Name for N5: ?

Platform: Self
Input: Self: Respect privacy, empathy, genuineness. Good resources for facts and proof; internet, libraries
Energy: Self driven, nutrition?


Matrix Name for N6: ?

Platform: Larger System
Input: Ecology, larger system awareness, strategy by example from others
Energy: Self-driven, nutrition?


Am I on with these?

Again, my instinct is to say that what's being developed is both the Hardware (which I want to call the Platform/Matrix), the firmware (Network architecture) and software (content-specific use of the hardware and firmware).


Help clearing up any of this would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,

~D


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Sakiro
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Re: Imaging the networks

Hi dude, i was to post the same info you did when you updated your question =)

I think Alex is offline for a few days, hopefully when is back could help with your confussion more than me, but anyways my thoughts if it helps at least a bit:


Devon Wrote: 1. Why is the safe space in which to interact, explore and learn called the platform? It seems like what's being developed, at least from a computer analogy perspective, is the platform. The actual hardware, firmware and architecture. Am i wrong on that?

I don't see why confuse you that is called that way? (plataform) you think there is a better word to call that "safe place to interact" to avoid confusion?

If i understand well the second part, i think that if we need to interact with that plataform, we can say that both the plataform and "us" are being developing? because we are interacting with it, for example in Matrix 4, if we interact with our culture/people both parts are being upgraded at the same time?

Devon Wrote: 2. Does each Matrix have a specific nomenclature?

Not that i'm aware, more than the numbers of each one.


Devon Wrote: 3. In the first matrix, the matrix is described as being the Fertilized Womb. However, the Platform is also the fertilized womb, is it not? And in this case, the input is the fertilized womb as well. Or at least components of the fertilized womb, i.e. nutrients and the umbilicus. This is where I'm getting confused.

That one is a little tricky for me, i would probably say that the input for the Matrix is the mother itself, (through her thoughts, diet, stress levels, and everything she does for like 9 months)

Devon Wrote: 4. In one of the tables, there is a category for where primary environmental input is coming from. e.g.

N1: Womb
N2: Primary caregiver
N3: Environment
N4: Society/Material world
N5: Self
N6: Larger system

Are those the same as the Matrix? The Platform? The Input?

As far as i know a Matrix is:  The Plataform + Energy + Input without any of them we don't have a Matrix and intelligence can't develop.

I quote from an article from the library:

"What Is a Matrix?

A matrix(4) is a context essential for and catalytic to a phase of emergence, and is supportive of and directive in the development of living emergent systems."

"A matrix as context for intelligence development provides three things: A Platform (safe space in which to interact, explore and learn), a source of Power (energy enough to move about and explore and fuel interaction), and Input (possibilities for exploration and learning -stuff to interact with).  Only when all three factors are present can interaction proceed and the development of intelligence"

Which probably you already read but here is the link anyways =)

Matrix Theory: The Basics
http://www.neurohackers.com/index.php/es/menu-top-nhalib-neurohacking/44-cat-nh-theory-research/173-matrix-theory-the-basics

The only detail i think, that here we call the plataform to intereact in Matrix 4 is our culture, and not society but as long you know the difference with each one no problem.

Devon Wrote: Again, my instinct is to say that what's being developed is both the Hardware (which I want to call the Platform/Matrix), the firmware (Network architecture) and software (content-specific use of the hardware and firmware).

Like i said above, i think too that both is being developed, the plataform (that safe space that is being "upgraded" because you are interacting with it) your hardware (brain) and your software (mind) at least that's the way i understand it!

Cheers


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devonwhite
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Re: Imaging the networks

Thanks Sakiro,

Personally, I think the nomenclature is confusing.

Is a Matrix the same thing as a network or simply the soil from which a network springs? My understanding is the latter. But it's the network I'm concerned with once development has taken place correctly. I only care about the Matrix when I'm hacking the first time through.

Either way, I think it's easier to refer to the physical brain as the Platform.
And yes, Safe Place...or Safe place to Learn...or Safe Zone would be better to refer to the "Safe space in which to interact, explore, and learn".
Input and Energy are fine terms.

I'll post more if thoughts arise.

Thanks again Sakiro.


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Alex
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Re: Imaging the networks

Hi dudes,
Just got back yesterday. Loads to do, so be patient with me  :  )

This is a familiar confusion, and it's good to use models that are congruous. Start here:
Library/research & theory/matrices and networks - differences and similarities
Here's the page:
http://neurohackers.com/index.php/en/me … milarities

Bear in mind this is for beginners and if you follow the tutorials you'll know that in intermediate level we expand to show how there are 6 stages to a phase.

I will come back and talk about this, but I need to... get some food, file all the articles from 37 science journals that are relevant to us, answer all my mails, update the HW schedule to fit in new residents, sort out everything that's blown over in the garden, do some work on tutorial 11, cut my hair so I can see past it... and then I'll be back.

Best,
AR


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Alex
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Re: Imaging the networks

Specifics: Re: "simply the soil from which a network springs?"  = No. You'd need somewhere safe for soil to be (eg, where it wouldn't be washed away or eroded), soil (your input), and a source of energy like heat, for a matrix.

Re: N4: Society/Material world  = No. N4 = CULTURE (the way in which one generation passes on its knowledge & abilities to the next - eg, science, art, music, gardening, childcare, spirituality etc, via interaction with bonded mentors, and media like books & websites.)

Re: hardware: In a brain it would be accurate to say a matrix needs hardware, energy, and input. If the matrix were just the hardware, preserved dead brains would still work and brains in jars would emit EEG sigs. That would be weeeeeeird, man.  :  )

The 'missing brain'  from here:  http://www.neurohackers.com/index.php/e … l1?start=1
is back. We don't know where it went, but hope it had a nice time.

Whenever we ask questions in science, the answers raise more questions  :  )  This is not as nuisancical as it might at first glance seem; in fact it's vital for the ongoing creation of understanding.

Original question:
Is there a diagram or page outlining the platform, input and energy sources for each matrix? As well as the name of each matrix?

No there isn't; but there should be. In fact this is a great mail as it inspires me to tidy up a lot of loose ends. I haven't had much time to revisit Matrix theory as it's not a major area students look at; until now there have not been many questions and I tend to prioritize areas that students ask a lot about. So I shall diverge here into the areas in question, and attempt to answer them as best I currently can.

Matrix theory applies to everything involving emergence; not just brains or networks. Mars, for example, may or may not be a Matrix. We know it has a possible safe space for life to develop (underground), we know it has energy provided by the sun. But we don't yet know if it has the right input (which would probably involve basic building blocks like amino acids, plus liquid water, although we know some extremophiles that can manage with ice).

It's partly in order to keep this 'universality' of matrices clear that I've been wary of prematurely giving official names to matrices, they've just been numbered, because the details are different for different creatures; for example, for many insects the first phase of development is an egg, the second is a larva, the third is a pupa and the fourth the adult form. Their matrices are going to be very different from ours, as are those of a fish, whose final matrix will be the ocean.

For humans, we can work out the platform, energy and required input (although you will see a problem):
1 womb / placenta / fertilization for egg + (at birth) sensorimotor input
2 carer / breastmilk / spatial input (achieved by carrying in arms as carer moves around, + play)
3 the natural world / hunting & gathering food / contents of the planet (environmental input)
4 culture / gardening, processing & cooking food / stories & demonstrations (procedural input)
5 mind / brain / facts, data & information (declarative input)
6 entelechy / humans / interaction (working memory input)

The problem: we are of course ultimately getting energy from the sun, after it has been processed by plants or animals we then eat, so this categorization is by no means clear cut.
Some of the early stuff I wrote on all this was wrong and must now be updated (another good reason for doing this now)  :  )


Question 1. Why is the safe space in which to interact, explore and learn called the platform? It seems like what's being developed, at least from a computer analogy perspective, is the platform. The actual hardware, firmware and architecture. Am i wrong on that?

Platform is not a good name, it was kinda difficult to find anything that wouldn't confuse, “safe space” sounds a bit too vague, “Fairly consistent local environment able to house the content” is way too long and at the time the term 'platform' was being used for brain versus machine location for AI, which I was reading a lot about. But the confusion between software platform and hardware platform has rather wrecked it.
The actual hardware is what was meant; not the software (the software is the processes of interaction). So I wondered if we could rewrite the needs for a matrix as Matter, Energy and Input. However, this doesn't work either because some of the input is often matter too, so the distinction isn't clear enough between the matter in our safe place and the matter required as input.

The question emerges: are all matrices of the material concrete nature, or could spacetime be considered a matrix for our universe? It is a continuum...so I wondered if 'continuum' could replace safe space, but not all matrices are continua even though a continuum can be considered a safe space. So that's a no.

In T11 I'm looking at the categorization habits of different networks and N2's marvelous way of classifying everything as 'objects' 'containers' and 'conduits', I thought of using 'a container' as the spatial requirement for a matrix.

That leaves us with “A stable container, energy, and input” as the requirements. This may be the best choice yet, but I'm open to suggestions.

What's being developed is of course the entity emerging IN the matrix; in our case intelligence.

...I accidentally left a simple matrix on my desk before going away, in the form of a mug of almost-finished tea. After a week in a stable container given the energy of a warm room and the input of cold tea, I found many islands of green furry life were emerging from the interactions taking place there...


Question 2.
Does each Matrix have a specific nomenclature?

I think we've covered this in what I wrote already...? To go into it a little, take for example Matrix 2. The real 'matrix' is literally in the carer's arms being carried around the local territory interacting all day, so we could call Matrix 2 “in arms matrix” and that would be more accurate than 'carer matrix' but still doesn't imply motion and interaction. Names are static and matrices are dynamic; they require more description than one or two words. Some have suggested 'continuum matrix' for matrix 2 and that's a great name, but few readers will understand the implications of the name unless they have read Liedloff's 'Continuum Concept'. Every name that adequately describes a Matrix is either overly long or requires some prior knowledge to interpret.

The same descriptive problem arises for other types of matrix -for example the first matrix for a bird is a fertilized egg inside a bird, sure we could call that the 'egg matrix', but once the egg is laid the next matrix would have to be called “An-egg-in-a-nest-being-sat-on-by-a-bird matrix” :  )

The context always has to be taken into consideration as part of the matrix.

Question 3.
In the first matrix, the matrix is described as being the Fertilized Womb. However, the Platform is also the fertilized womb, is it not? And in this case, the input is the fertilized womb as well. Or at least components of the fertilized womb, i.e. nutrients and the umbilicus. This is where I'm getting confused.

A matrix provides all three things; (to use the original terms) platform, energy and input. A fertilized womb provides a platform, energy and input, therefore it's a matrix. An unfertilized womb is not a matrix, as it only provides two of the three things.



Question 4. In one of the tables, there is a category for where primary environmental input is coming from. Are those the same as the Matrix? The Platform? The Input?

Primary environmental input for the emerging entity is provided by interaction with the matrix. That's not the same as “Input comes from the matrix”, because our senses need to interact with environmental input in order to make it 'our' input. For example it's no use having parents if they never interact with us, and it's no use there being a culture if nobody ever reads or views it.

Input is sometimes highly specific, but sometimes the details are irrelevant; for example the bonding steps that must be taken at birth to calibrate our senses and 'switch them on' is what moves us into matrix 2 and those requirements are highly specific, yet the certain critical mass of being carried about outdoors in matrix 2 that enables the shift to matrix 3, or the certain critical mass of stories in matrix 3 that enables creativity to blossom in network 4 are just a matter of sufficient practice or experience in a particular type of activity. In summary correct input is simply 'play', and the developing entity's intent, given optimal choices, drives the subject matter to be 'played with'. Play begins before birth and should continue throughout life.

I GOT THIS WRONG ABOVE AND SO HAVE REMOVED IT. Apologies for any confusion!
We can't have a 'Matrix name for N1' etc, because each matrix develops more than a single network (another big difference between matrices & networks). For example matrix 1 develops the whole of network 1 and some of network 2. Only when sufficient density has built up in network 2 can intelligence 'shift matrix' INTO network 2 and finish off this network -then start work on network 3, and so on. Network 6 therefore has a pretty easy time because all it's got to do is finish off building itself*  :  )

I think the short table I made above covers the 'breakdown', but we have to bear in mind (1) Only interaction with the matrix enables emergence and (2) the 'context' alone can't accurately name the matrix. Matrix provides context + energy + input.

Bits:

Context for matrix 2 is 'in arms of bonded carer'.

Context for matrix 3 is NOT 'a safe environment'. It is the natural world; dangers, hazards, warts  and all. That's why carers are with us until age 7.
Main input for M3 is stories.

Context for matrix 5 is self/mind. The mind gets its energy from the brain.
After more consideration, Context for M6 is really the universe, and input for matrix 6 is reality 'in toto'. I originally put 'entelechy' and 'interaction' in the table above which is too limiting. It could be argued that the energy-provider is the universe directly; not humans, but its through our transformation of energy into  power via food & technology that our energy becomes available; for example we have made fire, wind and water sources of energy.

If there's anything still missing, let me know. From here on I'll try to remember to use 'context/energy/input' instead of platform. Also making a note to review old stuff on matrix theory so as not to confuse newbies...
Best,
AR

*Unless it's up to something we don't know about...


AR


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devonwhite
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Re: Imaging the networks

Alex,

I'm not sure you answered my questions thoroughly enough, Alex. ; )

I've read through it a couple of times and I need to play with everything you've written a bit more to figure out if/where I'm still unsure. One thing I'll point out is that you updated Platform to two different names within your response. So...perhaps choosing one of those will reduce confusion going forward. : ) The two new names you mentioned are:

1. Container  (That leaves us with "A stable container, energy, and input” as the requirements. This may be the best choice yet, but I'm open to suggestions.)
2. Context  (From here on I'll try to remember to use 'context/energy/input' instead of platform.)

I'm psyched to see T11 as the habits of networks is fascinating. I find that stabilizing change on the inside happens most easily and stably when it happens habitually. In other words, when there is congruence between what's going on inside of someone and outside. 

When working with people I find that having them implement good habits congruent with who they are becoming leads to the most lasting change. That said, I'm curious to peer into your thinking on how habits (many of which engage all or multiple networks) happen at the network level.

Thanks for the detailed response Alex.

D


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devonwhite
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Re: Imaging the networks

I wanted to give the feedback that the idea that matrices develop more than one network clears up a lot for me.

Also, I see that you said the 'categorization habits' not just 'habits' of networks. Still very interested in updating my thoughts on that.

Finally, I want to suggest a possible updating in your graphs, placing N1 at the bottom and N6 at the top. I know humans generally read top down but whole formed humans are built from the ground up, so to speak. This is not an uncommon feature in emergence-based graphs and makes a kind of intuitive sense once you get used to it.

Best,

D


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Alex
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Re: Imaging the networks

Hi dudes,

Re: I want to suggest a possible updating in your graphs, placing N1 at the bottom and N6 at the top.

We do this is the network templates, but I'm not sure which 'graphs' you mean?

Re:you updated Platform to two different names within your response. So...perhaps choosing one of those will reduce confusion going forward. : )

Yup; these are just suggestions, and I haven't written anything new making any changes yet. I think 'container' is probably best, even though its a bit of a weird description when the matrix is set up on a planet  :  )  I was sort of waiting for consensus on the name, but I bet you very few people will respond, and then when we put something new up someone will write in and say “Containers is a weird name, why don't you change it to 'contexts'”  LOL  :  )

Re:
I find that stabilizing change on the inside happens most easily and stably when it happens habitually.
I think it's the only way it works...?

Re:  In other words, when there is congruence

Ah, the 'Rogers problem'...
Rogers' terminology drives me nuts because for some reason it's counterintuitive for me; thus I get it wrong most times and constantly have to retype. Welcome to the club  :  )  Rogers' terms are 'congruity' (not 'congruence') and 'congruous' (not 'congruent'). It's not a choice of words I would have made, but it's his theory so we can't change it now  :  ) Because of this problem of mine, I may get it wrong sometimes and not notice. If you find any of these woopsies in tutorials, let me know.

So to restate: When there is congruity...
between what's going on inside of someone and outside. When working with people I find that having them implement good habits congruent (congruous) with who they are becoming leads to the most lasting change. That said, I'm curious to peer into your thinking on how habits (many of which engage all or multiple networks) happen at the network level.

As I said, I think it's the only way it works. I haven't seen any evidence otherwise. We emphasize this in early tutorials, reminding that one cannot remove bad habits, one has to reolace them, for permanent change. To adopt new habits permanently they must become automatic responses, that's why it takes a lot of 'flight miles' of practice.
Best,
AR


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Alex
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Re: Imaging the networks

Hi dudes,
Sakiro wrote:
If i understand well the second part, i think that if we need to interact with that platform, we can say that both the platform and "us" are being developing? because we are interacting with it, for example in Matrix 4, if we interact with our culture/people both parts are being upgraded at the same time?

...This would be true if we said 'interact with that matrix' - remember, the 'platform' (container) is only one third of the matrix). If we look at the details, certainly there is interaction with the platform, with the energy and with the input -there is interaction with all aspects of the matrix (context).

Btw, any feedback on what we think the easiest terms are? Should I go with 'container'?
Best,
AR


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