Ok, thanks very much for the reply.

Alex, I am not meditating, I am actually retracing my previous train of thought.  Just like you describe, stopping the thoughts, and then taking a short trip backwards.  I literally try to randomly pause many times a day and go from the current thought in my head back back back until I hit a wall where I cant remember what I was thinking anymore, usually something between 2 to 10 minutes before I started the retracing.  But I gather that by using the pencil you can actually then look back at the information on the page that you have jotted down and use it as a sort of list to see if you can remember the list.  So, my version is traing to remember what I thought, and the other is trying to remember what I thought by remembering what I wrote down...?  Is this right?

So maybe I just went too far in thinking that this exercise was a kind of insight inducing habit to develop. But actually now I am understanding that it is a way to increase cognitive function, by inference from the studies you have referred to.  But I can't help and ask if there is a more "specific" effect to habitually exposing your reveries to conscious remembering besides the general improvement of cognitive function that many other sorts of brain training provide.

Sirhinojo wrote: thanks dudes, and OK! I will be sirhinojo and not DANIEL! ; )

Thats fine, thankyou Susan  LOL  :  )

S: The examples that I provided of my own associations for CHAIR and BILL OF RIGHTS were examples of doing the exercise incorrectly? 

There is no 'incorrectly', there is only learning  :  ) If we don't understand the exercises at first, or we make mistakes or even don't get anything out of them, that's learning too.

S: My associations with these things include memories of what OTHERS have said or told me about them.

Yes! This is exactly where false associations come from. As soon as we notice this, we can start reviewing things others say that don't actually make sense and realizing that most people don't talk sense and don't tell the truth at all, mainly because they have no idea what is real and what isn't, as they've got exectly the problem we're addressing (no congruent association). They repeat words without understanding the meanings, like parrots do.

I quote George Carlin so much here because George was one of those people who did talk sense and made a living by simply telling the truth, which the more intelligent of the population found hilarious rather than depressing.

S: It seems I thought the point of the exercise was to practice understanding the Network Associations and learning to quickly slot ALL concepts, no matter how unreal, socially fabricated, or sentimental, into the Network.

The thing I think I grasped most on doing it was understanding more clearly why associations cannot be fitted in 'to make sense' unless we know the real truth about them. The unconscious can't make sense out of conflicting information, for example if I tell it "My friend Dave drink lots of beer every day", that's incongruent, because it already knows that an excess of alcohol damages livers, so why on earth would an intelligent being be doing that? If he's not intelligent, why is he my friend? =DOES NOT COMPUTE, and wherever things do not compute we get incongruence.

If I give it the whole truth: ""My friend Dave drink lots of beer every day BECAUSE if he doesn't, he gets deep depression, which no other medication seems to help", then it understands. Dave is taking the most sensible choice from two evils, as chronic anxiety will kill him faster than cirrhosis, plus he is buying time to look for a safer remedy for his depression. That replaces Dave in the correct slot of 'sensible person' and everything computes.

Almost always when things don't make sense, the unconscious has some information missing. Realizing the simple truth that "people believe nonsense because they're brainwashed" solves a lot of problems for the unconscious and gives it a platform to work from to make sense of others' behavior and our own, and take steps to rectify our own.

S: But now I am to understand that the point of the exercise is about "paring down" or explaining things to aliens so as to prune any confusing, unnecessary, sentimentally fabricated associations.  This could be fun to try.  Let me see...

The exercise is prompting us to learn how to speak (and think) the absolute real truth about reality. To see the real world as it is, with no dysfunctional opinions or false beliefs attached to it. Perceiving the truth is the most powerful tool we can give the mind for its development.

I suggest we start a game of 'explain to the alien' in the PG forum "Rabbit Hole". I'll put one there to start it off. If anyone doesn't see the 'rabbit hole' forum when they log on, complain to me)
If we play with this we will definitely understand it! And it will help keep my PG skills sharp  :  )
I'll address the current ones here as they are part of this thread:

PHYSICS
N1 describes the composition of matter
...Okay, (I'm the alien) ...this is telling me what the physics thingy DOES (N2), but not what it IS. It sounds like this 'physics' thingy is something that talks or produces text. It describes to people what stuff is made of. ...(Maybe "Physics" is the name of a big computer humans have for analysing substances? Or maybe a substance analyser like our tricorders?...)

N2 describes the behavior of matter
...So, it also tells them how stuff behaves. (Ideological dilemma: How does it know all this I wonder? Do they program it themselves, or did some other race leave it there for them? If they program it themselves, how do they know what information to give it before it has told them the facts? If another race or their ancestors left it for them, how does it get updated? Doesn't make sense...)

N3 associates matter to energy
...Well that makes good sense; it would have to, if it's going to explain the mass/energy continuum to people...so, we now know that the physics thingy can speak or write, and it can make associations, so it might be some kind of AI device...

N4 uses mathematics and needs coordinated experiments
...Most AIs use binary math, plus I can understand that it may need experiments to set it up, or data from experiments, but not too clear on this point... **[notice here how I base my current associations upon the false ones I have already made. I am assuming an AI device and now thinking in those terms, forgetting the 'might be' factor!]

N5 describes the behavior of energy
Yep; it would have to in order to describe the behavior of matter, that makes total sense.

N6 predicts the behavior of matter and energy
Aha! So it is a predictive device as well as an instructive one...That sounds very useful indeed -you wouldn't have to do an experiment, you could just ask the device! Great! (Ideological dilemma: they said it needed experiments, but if they've done the experiments they know the facts anyway, so why would they need to consult the device??)
...Our guess is that a Physics is a kind of AI device or an instrument for analysing the matter/energy continuum and predicting its behavior. We have machines like this but they are not predictive except they can give us probabilities about some things. The Physics device sounds like a wonderful machine; we offer to swap you one for a cold fusion generator or a few volunteer lovers (see below), whichever you value most.


LOVER
N1 a physical thing, a person
...Hmm, does this mean it can be a physical thing OR a person, or does it mean it is a physical person?
N2 often in bed
...Okay, we got it's a physical thing/person and it is often found in bed. We don't find physical persons in our bed, (we do find small insects there sometimes but then we throw the bed away.)
...Maybe this means a 'lover' is a type of person who spends a lot of time in bed? Maybe they have a skill they do in in bed, such as mattress-testing? That could be done by a device or by a person...

N3 how many lovers?  how long a lover?  release oxytocin around lover
...Now the humans are asking us questions! -How many of these 'lovers' do we have and how long are they? (Does this mean length in units or duration in time?)
"Release oxytocin around lover" -is this a demand? a request? Advice? Instructions? A directive?

N4 a type of ongoing relationship, collaboration (sexual)
Aha! This is what can be done with 'lovers'; a type of ongoing sexual congress. We think we've got it! Our name for them is 'hookers; people who do professional sex with strangers in return for goods or services, whenever we can't find anyone we know to do it with.

N5 can give you energy
Well yes indeed they can, we certainly agree with that. Ours can also make you tired though.

N6 ?? deciding to be lovers
...Not sure here...are you asking us if we want to boff you in return for goods or services? Or are you merely informing us that you have decided to take up this occupation?


Whew this is really challenging for me, it's great fun  :  )
More down the rabbit hole!
Best,
AR

Hey dude, maybe this new entity can have a new email too? =)

Edit: Ok i remember you will need to get that account approved to see that forum too .. !

sirhinojo wrote:

My original question was about the exercise where we take concepts and break them down to see how different Networks see or experience the concept.  I found this exercise challenging but fun and also was curious what exactly the mechanism of action was that made it effective. 

Noticing what sort of things do and don't make sense in exercises like this starts to give us more awareness of the pattern of things that do.

That may seem like a small effect, but it's the beginning of a change in which we start to challenge information and realize how much of what we think is real in fact isn't. The mechanism of interaction is introspection, feeding our growing awareness of the contents of unconscious association; not just within ourselves but in others and in other situations.

This awareness is what enables empathy, interaction and prediction. It enables us to look at what seems like chaos and bring order out of the chaos, simply and without fuss.
It's also a way to see why the Core Conditions can be so effective; they are based on an inner model that makes total sense.

I'm concerned that I haven't managed to get this idea over in recent tutorials so I want to make sure I am answering this in a way that is understandable. Whatever we discover here that helps to explain it is going in T9!  :  )  So please let me know if this is not yet adequately explained.

[S] Now it seems that the exercise itself is only one of many ways to come to understand congruence.  For example, you brought up Discourse Analysis, and this appears to be another way to analyze what we say and see if what we say is actually sensible at all? Or another example, the visiting Alien thought experiment, whenever the alien is unable to understand our communication, unable to get what we possibly mean, this points to the "unreal" or "incongruent" aspects of our own thinking?

Yes there are multiple ways to explore congruity; also Co Counseling and Interactional Analysis which we'll play with in T9 and 10. Each method is particularly useful for one network -Co Counseling for N3, Interactional Analysis for N4, Discourse Analysis for N5. The 'explain to the alien' game is good for N3, 4 and 5 so it's a great one to start with.


[S]I am very curious about PG and read through the Resident Quarters and the Rabbit Hole... it seems like a PG never actually got started... or else the Game actually takes place somewhere else that I don't have access to?

There are several PGs have been started in The Rabbit Hole; perhaps you mistook them for ordinary posts?  :  )
Best,
AR

Sorry I forgot: It's not necessary to assume a new ID to play in the Rabbit Hole, although you can if you want to wait for Scal  :  )
Feel free to join in anyway, I gave the alien a different name as it helps the imagination.
If you don't want to solve the example given, you can suggest your own examples. It doesn't really matter if we take turns since its clear what post is being discussed.
Best,
AR

Hi dudes,
On PG: The best way to approach PG is the way you approached life when you were seven years old and were playing at being somebody like Batman or Tarzan or whoever.
Just BE your character, and post as your character.

For example let's say I decide to be Batman, I may post something like this in the PG forum:

"Hi folks, my name is Batman and I'm from Gotham. I noticed your post about association. As a kid I had a bad experience with bats, and as an adult I found that every time I got into a stressful situation I would panic, thinking I couldn't escape it like I couldn't escape the bats as a kid. My teacher told me how it wasn't the bats that scared me, it was the anxiety, and my false association of bats with being trapped and not being able to escape scary things.
One day we did some opium and I encountered bats (I know this is called 'exposure therapy'). And I learned that bats are just warm furry creatures trying to go about their little lives just like me; not great scary monsters like my anxiety had made them seem. Now I love bats, cos I made real, sensible associations about real bats instead of false (anxiety-created) associations about monster bats. Is this the sort of thing you mean when you say congruity?"

Other posters will now treat me as Batman. When I'm posting, I think as Batman. I act Batman. I am Batman. I get the experience of being Batman, and I make associations with the subject we're learning from Batman's personal experiences.

The only rule is, never break the pretend. You know how annoying it is when you are trying to enjoy a great movie with good characters, and some twit starts talking about the actors and who they are going out with and how much they earn, it just wrecks your movie experience? That's what to avoid.
Treat each poster as though they genuinely are the person they say they are, and keep core conditions. We all know it's a game and nobody is deluded; nobody thinks they really are Batman. We are temporarily suspending disbelief; just like we do at the movies, when for a short time we pretend the movie is real.

So stay as your character and treat everyone else as the characters they sign as, and you won't go wrong.
Best,
AR