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Sakiro
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Neurotransmitter and Protein Foods

I wonder because sometimes is recommend a particular food when you want to increase a particular neurotransmitter (dopamine, serotonin, etc).

As I have understood every meal that has protein should increase the levels of (all?) neurotransmitters in the brain?

Because for example we recommend the chicken (of one) as a meal to increase dopamine and not meat? (when the two are high-protein)

Perhaps it is because the amino acids who has the task to convert in dopamine in that particular food are higher compared to the others (aminoacids)?

Example: Maybe the chicken has a higher proportion of tyrosine and phenylalanine in comparison to the other amino acids and therefore it would consider a meal recommended to increase dopamine levels more than other neurotransmitters? (I put dopamine only as an example)

And I wonder how is the mental performance of vegetarian people when they almost don't eat protein how good can be theirs brain health?


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Alex
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Re: Neurotransmitter and Protein Foods

Hi dude,
Most protein foods contain vitamins and other chemicals that are precursors (ingredients) for making our neurotransmitters & hormones. However, there is a really big difference between meats!

Mainly this is because of adulteration of food (for example the average slice of beef from the US contains a lot of steroids, growth hormones and antibiotics; the average slice of beef from scotland contains none at all). US meat is banned in most of europe (most of europe pays a fine to the world trade org for refusing to buy it).

The additives that are put in meat/animals interfere with the natural aminos & vitamins (because chemicals tend to interact with each other and turn into other things). So often a lot of the protein structure has been destroyed in processed meat, and all you are eating is steroids and starch.

In many places white meat (pork/chicken/fish) is a lot less processed than red meat (beef, lamb) so white meat tends to be the choice for those who prefer their food without additives, but in many places it still depends on where you get your meat from (organic sources will have fewer additives than non-organic, and in some places there are laws forcing addition of antibios or other additives such as nitrates).

It gets even more complicated because in some places chicken is not labeled or considered as 'meat' (it is 'fowl') and consequently some vegetarians do eat chicken and fish.

But even if they don't, vegetarians do get protein. Most plant foods contain protein; plant proteins may not contain all the essential amino acids in the necessary proportions, (they are called 'imcomplete proteins) but a varied vegetarian diet gives a mixture of proteins and the amino acids in one protein compensate for the deficiencies of another. (ie two or more 'incomplete proteins' make up a complete protein.) 

The eight essential amino acids needed from food to make up neurotransmitters are: leucine, isoleucine, valine, threonine, methionine, phenylalanine, tryptophan, and lysine. All proteins have different mixtures of aminos, including vegetarian proteins.

Nutrition is one of the more complicated subjects in NH which is why it's got a section all to itself in the library. People's queries about it will determine the content, so let us know what information would be most useful to you and we'll put up more articles to cover it.
Best,
AR


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Sakiro
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Re: Neurotransmitter and Protein Foods

Well, hopefully i will eat more white meat and less meat (anyways i'm from argentina so probably has better meat source compared to eeuu!). Besides meat has a lot more "bad fat" than chicken.

Is very shocking too see how much impact can have the diet we put every day in our mouth! lol  .. i was having a "regular" diet i think .. but is good to know that means i have a lot to improve before going for being "superfit"

So i still don't get very clear if i have the interest to increase a particular neurotransmitters and i don't want to use drugs wich that particular percusor (like l-dopa if i want more dopamine) or change my behavior/activity (i suposse if i see a comedy movie i will increase serotonin production) only with a food, what i must see to found that foods? like i said in the first post i should look for that particular percursor (ej phenylalanine for dopamine) to be in more quantity in that food that the others aminoacids? (hope i explained it well).

Because a protein food can have the aminoacids tryptophan too, and we know that will increase serotonine and it can be no good idea to eat a good that has the same levels of tryptophan (serotonin) and phenylalanine (dopamine) if i'm only interested in increase my dopamine levels?

And how much is true that the food "loses" their nutrients (or at least part of?) when they are "cooked"?

Thanks


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Alex
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Re: Neurotransmitter and Protein Foods

Hi dude,
For lists of what foods increase/decrease neurotransmitters, see the article: "D&C part 1 -introduction & indigenous chemicals", in the library "Drugs & chemicals" section.

Remember though, precursors are not everything -you can make three different transmitters from the same precursors (dopamine, serotonin, norepinephrine) depending on what your body is doing with it. If you make sure you have a varied, low GI diet (see "optimal nutrition for beginners") you will get a good variety of precursors, but it's no good if your cortisol is high because them you'll only make norepinephrine and you'll still go short of the other two NTs.  Reducing cortisol is THE key to controlling NT production, and keeping blood sugar levels sensible and cortisol low is the best way to keep transmitters balanced.

Cooking -some foods need cooking to release the parts that we can digest and to stop them being poisonous (eg potatoes, kidney beans). If you're ever stuck on a desert island, you can even survive by eating tree bark if you cook it with ants (the formic acid makes you able to get nutrients out of the bark). 
But other foods are best eaten raw because cooking does destroy many nutrients as well, especially vitamins. Meat should be cooked because tapeworms can occur in raw meat. Freshwater fish like salmon or trout doesn't necessarily need cooking and is nice raw in sushi. Saltwater fish should be cooked.

Method of cooking is important; don't bake or fry at over 150c because that causes the production of acrylamides and they are carcinogenic. It's much safer to steam, boil or shallow fry in olive oil (you can't fry too hot with olive oil because it evaporates). Forget barbecues; the cooking method is a death trap and you will end up eating more carcinogens than food!

A typical meal for me these days is a big bowl of raw salad, houmous or mayonaisse, oatcakes and some sort of protein (sometimes cooked meat/eggs, sometimes cheese or fish). I eat fruit in the evenings it seems to give me an extra boost then.

You can also change neurotransmitter balance by preventing transmitters getting recycled (again, see D&C part 1).

These posts give me the munchies  LOL  :  )  I'm going for lunch now!
Best,
AR


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Sakiro
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Re: Neurotransmitter and Protein Foods

Hi again!

Yeah, cortisol sucks, when i read the first tutorials i got a little more "aware" of what being anxious does, i felt very "identified" with the syntoms.

It was easy for me because I did not even have the kind of anxiety that was described as "non-conscious." But were clear signs of anxiety that could manifest as a sudden rise in heart beats, or sitting with the computer and automatically begin to move the legs, "eating" nails, etc have tense shoulders.

I believe in these last few weeks have improved a bit this state, although is still not enough, it is difficult when you live in an "area" where you have no option of having control over (no choice) to remove certain "input control." Certain people in my family that I have the "obligation" to meet regularly feel they do happen to some elevation of anxiety and I have to limit to just after trying to reduce them with techniques to reduce anxiety.

It is amazing how the brain creates the connection of an initial experience that perhaps we did get very anxious and then that experience stay when we "remember" or experience it again and is going to make us feel the same way ... how to break this habit? or how "reverse" it? try to equal or exceed the "weight" but in a possitve (emotion weight?) experience?

One example I shared was that of a couple of weeks ago, get a driver's license, and went out first time, and probably lack the of practice (and because I was a bit nervous for being the first time) I stopped car in the middle of the street (bad "game" of clutch and throttle and it "shutdown") and unfortunately started to form a line of cars trying to pass, hoping that I could start the car again. And while I could finally "get out" was a couple of minutes where I release a great deal of anxiety and I think my brain "attached" the experience of taking the car to that point because I feel like every time I try out the car again I feel quite anxious, it sucks. It sucks when you are aware of what is happend and you "don't have the control" to change it.

What to do to reverse the situation? Perhaps the day will come out the car and that everything goes "perfect" may change this association? but the truth is that until now had no success, because that always causes anxiety (bad first experience) always carry enough anxiety above and to commit "minor errors" in handling that cause could not gain enough confidence.

Ps: Plus Anxiety probably the experience is harder to dominate because my N2 and n4 networks has "very low" scores (i did the FA.) And i think that two has a important role in driving.


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Alex
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Re: Neurotransmitter and Protein Foods

Hi dude,
You wrote:
It was easy for me because I did not even have the kind of anxiety that was described as "non-conscious." But were clear signs of anxiety that could manifest as a sudden rise in heart beats, or sitting with the computer and automatically begin to move the legs, "eating" nails, etc have tense shoulders.

Believe it or not, these symptoms pass unnoticed by many people and are part of what is normally 'unconscious anxiety'! In conscious anxiety, we are able to state the reason for our angst (for example being nervous about an exam, worrying about whether we may get blamed for something, fear of heights, and so on).

Of course, many blame unconscious anxiety on events in the here and now, even though they're not the cause.

I believe in these last few weeks have improved a bit this state, although is still not enough, it is difficult when you live in an "area" where you have no option of having control over (no choice) to remove certain "input control." Certain people in my family that I have the "obligation" to meet regularly feel they do happen to some elevation of anxiety and I have to limit to just after trying to reduce them with techniques to reduce anxiety.

I want you to be clear about reality and your own personal power here...You DO have a choice. You choose to meet certain circumstances that you choose to consider obligations. In real life, nobody would die and nothing terrible would happen, cosmically speaking, if you were to decide not to consider them obligations or not to do them. Some people would get anxious; that's about as serious as it gets.

So be very clear in your mind that these are choices you have made for a good reason because you're intelligent and you know that for you in the here and now the benefits of those choices outweigh the harm. THIS is reality. Always remember you are the captain  :  )

If on the other hand they are choices previously made from fear; from anxiety about what might happen if you don't comply, or from coercion, then you have some difficult new choices to make  :  )

It is amazing how the brain creates the connection of an initial experience that perhaps we did get very anxious and then that experience stay when we "remember" or experience it again and is going to make us feel the same way

Yes it's particularly weird after an accident, when people often have difficulty passing the same spot where it happened, or doing the same thing, even though they know logically there is now no danger  :  )


... how to break this habit? or how "reverse" it? try to equal or exceed the "weight" but in a possitve (emotion weight?) experience?

In cases like the above, re-exposure with a 'hard take off' can work well (for example, you fall off a bike, you get straight back on as soon as possible and avoid an exaggerated memory forming in the first place.) This also works well with some phobias. But there are many different ways to do this. Co counseling has some good techniques, or you can re-weight a memory yourself by various means. Often a lot of healthy reconsolidation goes on right after you start anxiety-reduction though, so give the brain time to do its thing before you interfere with it  :  )

One example I shared was that of a couple of weeks ago, get a driver's license, and went out first time, and probably lack the of practice (and because I was a bit nervous for being the first time) I stopped car in the middle of the street (bad "game" of clutch and throttle and it "shutdown") and unfortunately started to form a line of cars trying to pass, hoping that I could start the car again. And while I could finally "get out" was a couple of minutes where I release a great deal of anxiety and I think my brain "attached" the experience of taking the car to that point because I feel like every time I try out the car again I feel quite anxious, it sucks. It sucks when you are aware of what is happend and you "don't have the control" to change it.

What to do to reverse the situation? Perhaps the day will come out the car and that everything goes "perfect" may change this association? but the truth is that until now had no success, because that always causes anxiety (bad first experience) always carry enough anxiety above and to commit "minor errors" in handling that cause could not gain enough confidence.

If I felt this sort of thing I would avoid the activity until you have sufficient self confidence not to care what other people think of you. However, are you sure you're interpreting the experience clearly? Maybe you are very aware of how mental a lot of people can be when driving -in short, just as mental as they are the rest of the time, but more annoyed... It becomes not a matter of what people think but what loonies do (this is why I don't drive).

Ps: Plus Anxiety probably the experience is harder to dominate because my N2 and n4 networks has "very low" scores (i did the FA.) And i think that two has a important role in driving.

I know N2/N4 do tend to work in diagonal a lot but I'm surprised at the low N4; is it for wronguse or nonuse? I mean you're quite interactive so if N4 is low now, you're going to be as happy as a bee with a bath full of honey when it starts to go broadband  LOL  :  )
Best,
AR


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Sakiro
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Re: Neurotransmitter and Protein Foods

Well i will expose my "fat brain" performance to all LOL

N1 and N2: F score: 36,32  O score: 29,51  N score: 34,05   Whole Brain Scores: 18,48
N3:        F score: 36,32  O score: 34,05  N score: 29,51   Whole Brain Scores: 18,48
N4:        F score: 28,56  O score: 32,64  N score: 38,76   Whole Brain Scores: 20,58
N5:        F score: 38     O score: 38     N score: 24      Whole Brain Scores: 21
N6:        F score: 26,52  O score: 36,72  N score: 36,72   Whole Brain Scores: 20,58

Right now i'm focus on N1 and N2, and anxiety reduction LOL

Thanks for all the advice of your post, are very useful really.

You wrote:

I know N2/N4 do tend to work in diagonal a lot but I'm surprised at the low N4; is it for wronguse or nonuse? I mean you're quite interactive so if N4 is low now, you're going to be as happy as a bee with a bath full of honey when it starts to go broadband  LOL  :  )
Best,
AR



Haha you make me laugh in this one! and well, i was "surprised" when i consider myself a "creative" guy, or at least i had a lot of moments when people told me i had creative ideas and things like that, but probably is more related to have a good imagination (i "daydream" a lot sometimes, and comes up with weird ideas etc).

Cheers


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Alex
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Re: Neurotransmitter and Protein Foods

FAs always fascinate me, there is such variety in all of us! You also remind me that I should do another one soon -been lots of changes lately and I'd like to know where they are  :  )
Wow you're right there is a heck of a lot of potential in N4. Good for you!

You have some interesting correlations there; the network that is doing the most things is also doing the most things it shouldn't (but if you were studying hard in the recent past that will reflect it). This network (N5) needs a big change of occupation or a holiday  :  ) And the network that is doing the least things (N1 & 2) is also doing the least things it shouldn't (good news, because as you build it up there is less crap to get in your way).

It's useful to think of 'occupied' or wronguse networks as though they are computer folders full of junk (in this case bad habits or false information). When N3 does a search, if the files are full of junk it will pull up that info together with the good stuff (just like a crappy search engine does) and we have to wade through and eliminate all the prompts & triggers to behavior and habits that we don't want, in order to find the useful responses and good habits we do want. The only way to get rid of the crap is to overwrite it with practising these useful methods and habits -that's another thing input control and NH exercises are for -and another thing these practices achieve is avoiding building up any more junk.

I reckon NH is toughest at the start for this reason; once good habits are established it really does get a whole lot easier. It's a bit like being dropped in the deep end when just learning to swim; it's easy to feel overwhelmed and forget that biology designed us to float! LOL  :  )  ...So we can float for a while and get a plan established to learn swimming as we go along, doing NH exercises to build up the 'muscular-mindedness' we will need for swimming. If we play at swimming for long enough, we suddenly find we are doing it for real. Changes happen like this: underneath the play.

...And at least there's a bunch of us in the pool...  :  )
Best,
AR


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Sakiro
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Re: Neurotransmitter and Protein Foods

Alex, i understand that the nonuse scores will be "filled up to F scores" autmatically when i build up the F scores when i'm doing the exercises for the networks right? And to reduce the wronguse of X networks i must do the hacks in the tutorials right? Or another way can be looking at the answers in the FA and try to avoide that wrong behavior/habit?

To put an example .. if i put "i watch a lot of porn" (i think that was a question for wronguse in network 2?) .. so i that case i work in that ("just avoid looking porn" LOL), and like this example for all the others questions? (plus the hacks in tutorials).


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Alex
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Re: Neurotransmitter and Protein Foods

Hi dude,
The development of networks depends on use. The development of abilities depends on them getting the right input that gives them more right use than wrong use over time.

So if you do the exercises for an hour but spend the rest of your waking time getting bad input, they won't work. That's why input control is one of the first things to learn about. The same goes for anxiety reduction because without it you won't benefit from the exercises or the hacks either (although they could still provide some protection from degradation).

When you're just beginning it's staightforward, because you're just building up the network wiring with exercises. But once that network develops you also have to start watching it doesn't pick up bad habits, and select its input for optimal function. Developing a network is like being its parent; you have to provide for its needs, help it to explore its abilities, and watch the company it keeps and the things it copies.

You do have to watch 'X' networks, yes. The hacks are to help networks play with the abilities they are supposed to develop and to help prevent bad habits.

Looking at the answers in the FA is fine for personal reference and assessing abilities, but you cannot place value judgments on any individual answers because the FA is designed not to have any. (To use your example, one psychologist who looked at the 'porn' question might believe that watching porn is very good input for someone with a sluggish N2, or s/he might believe that porn is bad input -the point is none of the questions is about good or bad. In the FA certain preferences of input simply indicate which networks are used and what sort of things they are used for. As long as you bear that in mind you won't get confused  :  )

Detecting wronguse is more about the associations between the questions answered, not the content of the questions themselves. When you know a bit more you'll be able to figure out your dominant network and see how it's co-opting all the others to work for it, and even later on you can do a discourse analysis, and that will tell you more about how those associations tie together.

In short, the longer you go on and the more you find out in NH, the more your FA will be able to tell you  :  )
Best,
AR


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